Earlier this week, I made the (arguably poor) decision that commenting on a Facebook political post was a good idea.
A friend posted a snippet of Ben Carson’s recent interview on “The Mark Levin Show” on the radio, in which Carson called white liberals “the most racist people there are” for stereotyping the political beliefs of blacks and other minorities as exclusively liberal and ostracizing those who don’t conform. One commenter had cited his own experience with a black friend who had been viciously attacked for her libertarian political beliefs, and another had sarcastically rebuked him.
I asked the sarcastic commenter to unpack her statement a little further, and she replied with a short list of liberal social positions that conservatives apparently oppress on a regular basis, but that she claimed she would never convince us of on Facebook.
She signed off by curtly telling me: “Check your privilege.”
Wait, what? Excuse me?
I am well aware of the arguments made in academic and social discourse regarding “white privilege,” the notion that white individuals in society benefit from certain social or economic norms in a way that people of minority groups do not. I am actively studying liberation theology and feminist theology right now, and I am very much aware of these critiques of society. Society is predominately white and male in origin and it structures itself such that minorities and women are at a disadvantage.
The concepts of white or male privilege, however, are still something I find highly suspicious.
Such claims forward the same sort of racist or gendered undercurrents that are found in actual anti-minority and anti-women statements but under the guise of academic objectivity.
To be fair, there is in fact an entire sociological narrative at play here that revolves around the tension between white Europeans and non-whites in the development of social structures, government institutions and the like.
I agree that society does still suffer from certain forms and expressions of racism and sexism that need to be addressed. Ultimately, at the end of the day, all I want to do as a human being and a Christian is to be able to look other human beings in the eye, shake their hands, love them as people and work with them to make the world a better place.
But because I am a white male from the dominant religious group in an economically well-off nation, none of that matters because my mere existence oppresses others.
I can’t fathom how this became an acceptable chain of thought. Think about it for just a minute: it’s wrong for me to make pejorative claims about the social status of black people based on their race (which they had no control over being born into) or of women based on their gender (which they also had no control over being born into), but it IS somehow appropriate to make pejorative claims about the social position of white people based on their race (which they also had no control over)?
Unless, of course, that person confesses the sin of their own existence and agrees to the political ideology of the oppressed party in question.
And therein lies the rub with this whole scheme. The poster who told me to “check my privilege” wasn’t commenting on my race or my gender directly but did explicitly mention my political ideology, conservatism, in her statement.
Politics, I think, is the real crux of the “privilege” issue. Consider abortion as an example. It can’t be that I have moral concerns about the status of an unborn fetus as a unique being such that I believe fetuses may deserve some legal protection.
I just want women to remain barefoot, pregnant and in kitchens across the land. If I truly cared about women’s rights, I would become a hardcore social liberal and abort all the babies.
The problem with the “privilege” argument is that it doesn’t constructively forward any sort of political or social discussion. All it serves to do is assign someone’s person or beliefs an “oppressive” status that somehow undermines their validity – even if their opinions are logically accessible, well-reasoned and potentially beneficial to society. The “privilege” argument is an ad hominem attack on the other individual’s character, one of the worst kinds of logical fallacies. It’s like calling someone a racist and thinking that means you’ve won a debate.
If we really want to further constructive conversations about major social and political issues, we can’t spend our time assigning deconstructive labels to one another based on our ideologies.
We’re going to differ in perspective and disagree; it’s part of the human condition. Instead, we must constructively engage with one another and seek to proceed through our discussions reasonably.
Without rational, level dialogue, we will never actually succeed in making society a more just place.
David Giffin is a second-year Masters in Theological Studies student at the Candler School of Theology from Charleston, Ill.
Cartoon by Mariana Hernandez
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Stopped reading here – “The concepts of white or male privilege, however, are still something I find highly suspicious.”
,.. then scrolled down and saw that this is a Giffin article… Davey, you’re always good for a laugh. Who needs trolls when we’ve got you
“Earlier this week, I made the (arguably poor) decision that commenting on a Facebook political post was a good idea.” Is this sentence proper grammatically? I think it should be “Earlier this week, I made the (arguably poor) decision to comment on a Facebook political post.”
Good article though. Of course this argument about white privilege is non-sense. There is really no point in debating this issue anymore. The majority of society agrees with you. The Democrats have lost countless elections by associating with reverse-racists. Opinion polls show that Americans now think that reverse-racism is a larger problem than traditional racism. The other side knows they have lost the battle for public opinion, so they resort to these types of attacks to make sure that people are afraid to disagree with them. I find it disgusting how certain faculty members at Emory treat people who complain non-stop and blame others for their problems like they are doing something heroic. Do they really think that if they win this argument and Dr. Wagner resigns, more people will want to come to Emory to work and study? Or donate to the school?
This strikes me as straw-manning the worst version of the (let’s called it “leftist”) argument. “You are white and therefore your opinion is false/oppressive” is a bad argument. “You are a conservative and therefore [insert conservative stereotype/adhom regarding inherent evilness]” is a bad argument.
“Certain aspects of your racial and economic location are reflected in your claims, and these claims ignore or sustain oppressive structures” is not necessarily a bad argument, and really (depending on what’s being pointed out as problematic) doesn’t require anything more than a recognition that we all tend to be self-absorbed in our own little worlds and have difficulty understanding other people’s worlds, and that sometimes that blindness causes us to support things that are actually pretty bad and even maybe worth getting upset over. Sometimes getting upset entails not being 100% rational/logical, and at that point I think it’s often helpful to step back and try to figure out why this other person is not being 100% rational/logical, and at least some of the time it’s because things are actually pretty bad and the cold invitation to “rational” discussion is incommensurate without the amount of hurt and emotion that exists, e.g. fights between lovers or distant utilitarian assessments about whether a million dead Vietnamese are worth the risk that dominos might have fallen.
It’s too bad that this person on Facebook was dismissive, certainly she didn’t seem (by your account) to have defended her position adequately, but I’m not sure why that renders “white privilege” a useless form of analysis. Being dismissive isn’t a liberal or conservative or leftist or racist tendency, it’s something that all kinds of people do all the time.
Yolo,
I agree with your general argument. I acknowledged that arguments about structural racism and sexism are sometimes valid because there are in fact constructive ways to discuss and analyze them.
The basic point was that she didn’t even attempt to engage the issue. She basically criticized someone else’s example, and when challenged dropped the “privileged” response into the conversation as if to de-legitimize any further response. That’s why I compared it to using a charge of racism to end debate and claiming victory. Using any argument about privilege in this way merely re-deploys the same sorts of racist or gendered biases.
Thanks for reading!
-David
“If I truly cared about women’s rights, I would become a hardcore social liberal and abort all the babies.”
This is some white male privilege bullshit right here. You don’t even realize how ridiculous your words are. No one is talking about aborting “all the babies”. I’m pro-choice and I definitely don’t want you to go around aborting all the babies. Keep your hands off my vagina! What I do with my vagina is up to me and me alone. You don’t own me. You don’t pay my bills.
I think he is just exaggerating. It’s to make a point that other people’s opinions are making him feel that he has no reasons to think the way he does. I’m sure he meant that supporting women’s rights to have abortions is important to many people, such as you and I. Yet, the idea of being pro-life makes him feel as if he thinks this way due to a hatred of women. I will admit that if he were a woman, I think his argument would be much more legitimate because he could see things from our perspective. But the point is that political correctness is oppressive in many ways. I hate feeling like a bad person just for having my own political opinions in class. I’m glad he wrote this article.
Exactly the sort of thinking I was going for. Thank you for picking up on my use of sarcasm to make a point.
This is an example of what he was talking about.
“If I truly cared about women’s rights, I would become a hardcore social liberal and abort all the babies”
Please tell me where in this sentence he says anything to do with race? Male-privilege, MAYBE, but you’re ruining your argument by saying “white male privilege bullshit”
There is a substantial difference between attacking an individual who benefits from a society that privileges white men and attacking the societal structures that create that privilege.
No attack the individual. I don’t want to be held responsible for president Wagner’s statement.
Just for clarification’s sake, I’m the one he’s referring to. My argument wasn’t: “check your privilege,” what I said was, I am not engaging in this argument on Facebook because this is ridiculous, and also check your privilege (which I still think David needs to do). If that wasn’t clear (and it’s my fault that it wasn’t), it is now.
ADDITIONALLY, my basic (basic!!!!) argument is that the problem I have with social conservatives (no matter their race, gender, sexual orientation, WHATEVER) is that their views limit my rights and the rights of my friends and the rights of my students and the rights of everyone. Often, they cannot understand why their views limit others’ rights because they’re rights aren’t limited, because they are privileged.
Anyway, this is all I’m going to say about this because this article is so insane that it doesn’t even merit the thought I’ve already put into it at this point.
FINALLY, the more you know… here’s the Facebook conversation he’s referring to:
ORIGINAL POST:
Whoever decided to have this guy be Emory’s commencement speaker because he was an out of the box choice, the box is for you.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/04/02/ben_carson_white_liberals_are_the_most_racist_people_there_are.html
Gina Chirillo you should see what he says about gay people
April 2 at 5:08pm · Like
John Paul Cassil I just read the transcript… Sadly it’s true in many cases. My black conservative friends are always getting derided by white liberals and black liberals alike… One of my black conservative friend’s white professors spat on her for being conservative/libertarian.
April 2 at 5:12pm · Like
Jimmy Sunshine where/when did that happen? was it reported to the police? because that is assault if its true.
April 2 at 5:13pm · Like
John Paul Cassil She decided not to sue for something so insignificant… but she was on CNN and other news networks about it.
Regardless of that, she (and some of my other libertarian black friends) get called uncle toms and other racist names by liberals all the time.
April 2 at 5:17pm · Edited · Like
Gina Chirillo i think it’s not about race i think it’s more about you know, limiting other peoples’ right n’ stuff but u know i’m just a white liberal
April 2 at 5:24pm · Like
Gina Chirillo & definitely that one incident proves your point that all white liberals are super racist
April 2 at 5:26pm · Like
John Paul Cassil That wasn’t my point, and you know it. Also, that headline does take what he said out of context. The quotes used there in the headline are extrapolated from his other comments and not what he actually said verbatim, to my understanding.
April 2 at 5:28pm · Like
Jimmy Sunshine No. He actuality said it verbatim
April 2 at 5:46pm via mobile · Like
David G. Giffin Gina, could you unpack that last comment? “i think it’s not about race i think it’s more about you know, limiting other peoples’ right n’ stuff but u know i’m just a white liberal”
April 2 at 7:09pm · Like
Andrew Casso white conservatives prop him up because he’s black; white and especially black liberals are especially harsh for the same reason. his rise to fame is because he criticized obamacare in front of obama. why exactly are we still talking about him?
April 2 at 7:15pm · Edited · Like
Gina Chirillo rights like you know, to have an abortion legally and to marry the people we love and to be paid the same amount as men for the same job. those kinds of rights that conservative people limit everyday and i can’t have this facebook fight because I’m not going to change anyone’s mind so I’ll leave that there. check your privilege.
April 2 at 7:31pm · Like
Andrew Casso “check your privilege.”
not to gina, but to anyone else: isn’t this the white-equivalent of the “uncle tom” insult? you are white/ male, so your non-liberal politically ideology is especially offensive and unacceptable?
April 2 at 7:39pm · Like · 1
Gina Chirillo if your non-liberal political ideology limits my rights because those rights are something you personally don’t have to think about because you’re a white male, then no.
April 2 at 7:41pm · Like
Gina Chirillo ok bye now.
April 2 at 7:41pm · Like
David G. Giffin Gina, I think I’m seeing the problem here. With all due respect, your examples were really loaded statements, and they do not take into account that someone could come to a different conclusion on the issue and still be completely reasonable. How when someone has a different opinion is that somehow grounds for them to be attacked? Especially if they are a minority, how does that justify other people from their race (or another race) attacking them?
April 2 at 7:41pm · Like · 1
Andrew Casso you are assuming because he is a white male that he is unconcerned with issues that affect women and non-whites. the same insult “check your privilege” wouldn’t be directed at a pro-life or anti-gay marriage woman or minority. this is a form of bigotry that sort of bothers me, as a white male liberal
April 2 at 7:45pm · Like · 1
David G. Giffin Andrew: I had the exact same thought, as a white male conservative. It automatically de-legitimizes anyone with “privilege” (however vaguely that can be determined) from participating in the conversation or having a valid opinion.
Gina,
You an idiot. Suck my white male privilege!
Really Wheel? This comment passed moderation?
Damn, that’s a good line! I’ll have to use that one more often.
RAJ PATEL STOLE THE ELECTION! AND GOT AWAY WITH IT! AIN”T THAT SOME PRIVILEGE!
There are several problems with the article and the conversation.
Oh, I’m a black female by the way, just to be clear.
On the article:
You start off in rocky waters. Providing your field of studies to justify your legitmacy on the subject only shows that you’ve interacted with these issues on a research and academic level. Problem number one. There already lies an abrupt disconnect between approaching any life experience through a technocratic/academic lens and the experience itself. See, for the former, we (as in poc, women, lgbtq, minority groups) are deduced to items of study, as opposed to people. Consider this, is your education mainly rooted in books, research, and other non-human mediums? Probably. Is your education on said subject matters mainly rooted conversations exchanged with people within communities in order to foster genuine relationships? [Keyword: mainly] Probably not. Your being aware, does not prove that you understand the argument.
{By the way, your action here is a form of privelege}
Secondly, “Society is predominately white and male in origin and it structures itself such that minorities and women are at a disadvantage.
“The concepts of white or male privelege, however, are still something I find highly suspicious.”
Seriously?
Please, define “society”. It could not be the world’s population because we actually live in a very non-white world (it’s been like that for a while actually). Unless you mean to speak of society where violently enforced confines reduces “society” to contain a majority white population.
{By the way, your language here is another form of privelege}
There really seems to be some conflict in your argument. You acknowledge that “society” structures itself to exclude other groups of people, which inevitably places white people at a higher social standing. But then, you find the concepts of white/male privelege suspicious? I am not sure if you really believe that, or you just don’t want to be labeled as such. Those are two different conversations to be had. But either way, your argument is already conflicted which really weakens your position.
Then, it gets worst. You bring up your position as a Christian being this all embracing kind of compassion. Let’s not forget the original concentration of Christianity and how that spread throughout the world (slaves and mass killings of non-white peoples).
Please let me know if this rectifies any of the broken parts in this chain of logic. It is apparent that you are overlooking your own subtle day to day actions. It’s almost like a voice of denial. Further in your article you state that white people never had control over their social status. This is the second time you’ve contradicted yourself.
Furthermore, there’s this underlying assumption that we want white people to agree with us. Um no, it’s not that deep. What we would like is to have equal and equitable rights. Sure it’s on paper, but there are many societal dispositions and institutions that are rooted in racist and oppressive ideologies (look, that’s just the history of this country). Many things on the surface have been reformed, but the heart of the situation is yet to really be tampered with (at least on a mainstream level). Please understand that the people you are referring to get along and do not get along due to conflicting and similar cultures.
What the privelege argument actually does is expose those actions, languages, and thoughts that are geared toward to development and maintainance of the white race. It’s not deconstructive if it’s being real.
If you are still confused as to why privilege is a valid observation and argument, then this deserves a personal conversation.
[My original comment is awaiting moderation, potentially because I included a hyperlink. Because I want to comment in a timely fashion, forgive me for including my comment here sans links in an attempt to make it go through]
“But because I am a white male from the dominant religious group in an economically well-off nation, none of that matters because my mere existence oppresses others.”
David, your understanding of privilege is seriously wanting. I think that before you write an editorial on the subject, you should take the time to critically engage with some things that have been written about privilege.
As a quick primer, you should read:
“White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack” by Peggy McIntosh
It’s readily available online.
Should I be surprised that you deliver your take on privilege without actually defining it or seeking out critical commentary on the subject? Should I be surprised that you seem to think your gut reaction to being told to “check your privilege” can pass as incisive social analysis? I’m not! It’s a classic gesture of privilege to think that you have a state-of-the-art perspective on things that you haven’t bothered to read about.
Alas, you have made the classic mistake in conversations about privilege: you have made it ABOUT YOU. There is no easy way to say this: privilege is NOT ABOUT YOU, David, the person, the man. It is not about YOUR “mere existence” being oppressive. It is about the ways in which we all fail to perceive important social dynamics, often oppressive ones, because we are all entrenched in hierarchical systems of power.
[I have to point out here that feminists and detractors have been doing this dance around privilege for a long time: detractors making privilege about individuals and feminists having to point out over and over again that it’s about systems and not our egos. Congratulations! By not doing your reading beforehand, you have continued the cycle!]
For example, people use ableist language all the time. If all of us grew up being called by ableist slurs, however, we might not use that language. Because there is a power discrepancy here, some people are attuned to the ways in which that language reinforces an ableist vision of the world and some people are not. Checking one’s privilege does not mean that one is a BAD person, or that one need to denigrate oneself, but it does means that we need to be aware of the ways in which our positions of power naturalize certain problematic behaviors, perspectives and languages that we should be interrogating.
Samantha,
Thank you for your constructive response. I wish the original Facebook post had been so well though out.
I did try to acknowledge the fact that there are structural and societal issues at play. However, the reason I addressed the subject personally was because the poster in question (who has apparently decided to out herself) did make it personal. It wasn’t a “hey, do you see how this could be privileged” approach, which could have been engaged more objectively. It was a very direct approach in response to my request for her to explain her comments.
So perhaps, in the end, my responding specifically to that example undermined some of my argument. But I think the point is still worth considering. Is a “weaponized” form of the privilege argument – i.e. “Your position is invalid because you are white/male/etc. and therefore privileged” – rather than a larger systemic or structural critique any better than true racism or sexism? I would venture no, it is not.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply.
-David
Straight white cis male shows privilege, then is literally too privileged to figure out what it means to be called privileged? Move along, internet. Nothing (new) to see here.
David, I know it SEEMS like a good argument to break this down to basics and say things like ‘racism is attacking someone for their race, I’m white and being called privileged for my race!’, but it’s actually a pretty dumb point. Honestly, you said it perfectly: “It’s like calling someone a racist and thinking that means you’ve won a debate”. For the sake of you understanding this, though, let’s return to the kindergarten politics you somehow think merit discussion in The Wheel: has anyone ever said ‘That’s easy for you to say’ to you before? Because it’s easy for you to say you’re just coming up with these opinions after careful study and are totally unaffected by your environment, because society has been designed to make you feel that way, that you are simply a person. No prefix, no modifier.
Do you understand that society doesn’t make everyone feel this way? Which is lucky because it’s not like we need any more jumped up MA students who are sleeping through ‘liberation theology’ and ‘feminist theology’ courses, not realizing the second words of those course titles contradict the first, and thinking they can challenge an entire field of study that people have spent careers working on through a shot off editorial based on a Facebook comment.
As a straight white cis male myself, I’m going to be reading what the above commenter, Ms. Allen, recommended, and educating myself instead of doggedly protecting my right to promote homophobes.
Misandry 4 lyfe and kill all men,
George
Far more disturbing than the actual analysis is the sheer cattiness of writing a Wheel article in response to a Facebook conversation.
I would dismiss the article on that basis alone. Yep. That’s what I’ll go ahead and do.
This article and the comments show why the “liberal arts” are a bunch of horse shit. You people are so full of yourselves. You can argue all you want, but just so you know, NOBODY CARES!!!! We need more cuts not less to the liberal arts.